Ashkan Jabarianha: On Being a Complete Dancer Insights about social dancing, show dancing, teaching, and performing By Laureano Ralon Facchina

Okay, first of all, tell us how you got into Salsa…

I’ve always wanted to dance, pretty much all my life, but I never had the chance to do it. I actually wanted to figure skate first, but the problem was that since I moved to Vancouver I went to school non-stop: school, school, school, school, and so I never had the time to get around to it. When I finished school, I was too old to figure skate. I finished university and I was working out one day in the gym, and they announced that there was a free, complimentary salsa lesson for all the members. So I went to check it out and there I was: that was my first salsa lesson…

And who was the instructor?

That was Nestor; he was teaching at Fitness World on Georgia. That was my first Salsa lesson. I took three lessons and within the first three or four lessons I asked him where the best place to learn salsa was. Two of his students at the time – Sasha and Laura – told me: “if you want to get good, you have to go to L.A. – that’s where it’s happening, there’s some amazing dancers down there.” So, you know, I’m always crazy when I get into anything, I want to get to the top right away. I read about the Salsa Congress in L.A. and I went to check it out. I read that Tito Puente was going to be playing there. At the time I didn’t care about dancing so much, but I’ve listened to Tito Puente since I was a kid and I loved his music (I didn’t even know it was Salsa at the time; I thought of it as Latin Music).

Anyway, I went to L.A. but Tito Puente passed away that year. I never got to see him but I got the pleasure to meet some of the best dancers in the world. I was wowed by people like Francisco Vazquez, Johnny Vazquez, Rogelio Moreno, Eddie Torres, Caribbean Soul. Those guys just wowed me and I was so amazed by them that on the second night at the Congress I walked up to Francisco and asked him “what does it take to be in your company?” He said: “What do you know about dancing?” I started flipping and doing splits because I had a little bit of a gymnastics background. He goes: “what about dancing?” and I went: “that’s all I know…” (laughs). I didn’t even know how to do a proper basic step at the time, so he told me: “if you ever come to L.A. look us up and you can start training with us.”

I became friends with Johnny Vazquez that year, and we started hanging out at that Congress. I used to go back and forth from L.A. for business, so I would go down there and hang out with them. It wasn’t so much about dancing at that point; we would just hang out, go out and just party. Still, that year I spent so much time filming at the congress that when I came back I couldn’t use my right shoulder for like a week. I had like 15 or 20 hours worth of videos, and I started learning most of my dancing from that at the time.

What was the most important lesson you learnt from Nestor as your first instructor?

I think the most important lesson I learnt from Nestor is that I could do whatever I wanted to do with dancing. A lot of people would tell me that I had two left feet, that I didn’t get the music, and that it wasn’t in my blood. Nestor gave me confidence: he told me “you have a lot of talent – just go for it.” He was a great inspiration that way.

So was he the one that got you hooked into Salsa then?

Yeah, I would say Nestor was the one that got me hooked at the beginning, sure.

Let's change the subject. I know you have strong views about music and “the role of music”, so to speak...

I think a lot of the music that gets played in the clubs is beautiful music but it’s not dancing music. It’s great for when you go for a drive, when you're sitting at home, but it's not dancing music. Dancing music has a structure and gives the dancer a reason to dance. It almost has a formula. A lot of people seem to think that I like fast music, and to say that now it almost bugs me, because there used to be a time when I really liked fast music, and that's when I didn't know how to dance. I still don't know how to dance, but I'm starting to have a better understanding overall. I remember a few years ago, when I was dancing, it didn't matter for me what played; I would dance. And that's what a lot of the promoters say, that they want to cater to the crowds. What I want to say to them, to the DJs and promoters, is that the people who are starting to dance don't care what they dance to, as long as it's danceable music. The speed is not the question; it's the quality of the music that is the question. There's a lot of music out there that has so much juice and passion and there's so much quality in it…(sighs). So, why can't we go ahead and start playing that kind of music out here, so that the people who are starting in the scene can grow with that music!

So, how do you differentiate good music from bad music? What are some of the things that one should look for?

First of all, one of the things that I look for in the music is, if the song changes the beat more than five times in one song, there's a problem with that, because most beginners already have to put extra effort to stay on beat. For me, if the song changes the timing more than three or four times in one song, there's a problem. Good songs usually have a structure: an introduction, a “montuno” section, etc. If the song doesn't respect conventional structures – if you're dancing and all of a sudden you feel lost – there's a problem with that song. If you listen to a good salsa song, the beginning will lay down some basic information, in the middle there's usually a transition, and with the ending you feel the familiarity of the beginning of that song. So, given that structure, as a dancer, you have room to play with that song.

…and I'm guessing once you learn to recognize the structure it's much easier for you to anticipate hits and breaks, and styling comes much more easily as a result...

Exactly! Imagine you're driving down the street and the light goes green, yellow, red, whatever, sooner or later you're going to crash. But if the street light functions properly, then you can see the change and slow down or speed up accordingly.

So music is definitely important. What else? What else is social dancing all about?

Some of the best social dancers I've seen have never taken lessons; they don't know a single step, they go out there, and they're enjoying their body movement. To me, that's social dancing. Now, if we want to explore being better dancers and build on top of that, then it becomes a passion and an art. For me, every time a song comes on I want to grab a lady and take her for an adventure: I want to take her out for a date almost, where I pick her up, we go for a drive, I take her to a nice restaurant, etc. Now, depending how the whether is that day, the activities we perform will change. But if you repeat the same routine every time, if you were to date a girl and repeat the same sequence of events every time, that would be boring! Dancing is the same: there has to be an adventure, it has to be fun.

For me, social dancing is about understanding where the energy of my partner is, where my energy is, coming to an understanding between our energies, grabbing the music, laying our energies on top of that music, and riding the waves of that music to the end. When you have a beautiful connection social dancing, you don't have to worry about showing off; people will watch you because there's passion in it, there's connection in it. And why do we go out dancing? Because we want to be passionate, because we want life, because when you sit at home there's some deadness. That's why we come out, because we want to be adventurous. Sometimes you see somebody sing and he/she makes your hair on your back stand up, and that’s because it comes from their soul.

Dancing for me is the same: you see some people dancing and it’s always about show. There’s a time when you can show off, of course, enjoy yourself; but even then, it has to come from your soul; it can’t be to prove something to somebody, it has to be you doing what you love to do, and if somebody chooses to watch what you do, that’s where it becomes beautiful.

So the next question is: what do you think is the difference between social dance and show dance or performance?

The biggest difference for about social dancing and dancing on stage is the presentation of it. In stage I’m still sharing my passion with people, but when you go to a stage, people are already there to watch you. They’re already there, that’s their choice, they already made their decision to come and watch your show.

When you’re on the social dance floor, a lot of people are there to dance. That means, if somebody chooses to watch you, that’s great; but you cannot go out there and make people watch you. That’s not something that you should be doing, and that’s what happens: sometimes it’s forced up on people – watch me! – on the social dance floor. If the floor opens up for you to dance and people are all enjoying, then of course, you feed of that energy and you give back to the energy that you’re getting. But if you’re not getting that energy and you keep forcing that energy up on people, it’s an uncomfortable space for people.

So you ask me about the differences between social dance and show dance, on the stage that’s my time: I can choose to do whatever I want with those two minutes or five minutes that I have. But on the social dance floor, that’s not my time, that’s hundreds’ of people’s times. Whoever chooses to share that time with you, that’s their choice. On the stage, though, I still think it has to be about you sharing with people and people choosing to watch you.

Okay, so the next question is: the best social dancer is not necessarily the best show dancer and vice versa, just the same way that the best dancer is not necessarily the best teacher…

Let me tie that in for you. You have amazing show dancers and you have amazing social dancers. Now, if the person is an amazing social dancer, and he/she is also an amazing show dancer, that makes them an
amazing performer. Most people who are amazing dancers on stage, they’re not necessarily the best dancers on the social dance floor and vice versa. So, if there’s a well-rounded dancer that can do both, I call them performers because they can perform their art no matter what setting they’re in. Now, you tied in something else: a teacher. Teaching is an art in and of itself…

What does it take to be a good instructor?

I think to be a good teacher involves being a good communicator; you almost have to be a great psychologist to be a great teacher. You have to be able to read people, understand their body language, understand how they feel, because if I’m teaching you, I won’t deal with you in the same way that I deal with somebody who’s timid and shy. And I’m not going to be dealing with them in the same way that I might be dealing with a 40-year old engineer who's very successful at what he does and but would have a really hard time doing even the basic step. So as an instructor, I have to pay attention to personalities, to backgrounds, to moods, etc. Sometimes there are people in my classes who have a high status (Doctors, Lawyers, etc.), but I will really put them in their place right away, because I don’t want their status to get in the way of their learning; their status has nothing to do with what they can do with their bodies. And vice versa: sometimes I have people who are amazing at what they do but they’re low in self-confidence, so I always grab them and put them in on a pedestal. So, it’s almost like a game of psychology in a way, and it’s an the art of reading people, I think.

Now, sometimes the best dancers don’t pay attention to that in their teachings. Some of the best instructors that I’ve seen are not necessarily the best dancers. It’s like coaches: sometimes you see some of the best basketball or football coaches and they never really do anything, but they know what it takes to get there - they understand the concept. They’re good at pushing somebody to the next level. I think teaching is an art form in and of itself, and a lot of people get out there and they teach somebody without even knowing what it really takes to be an instructor. It’s a really complex subject and we can talk about it for hours.

Okay, I have one more question and then I’ll let you go. The last question is actually about you: we talked about the social dancer, the show dancer, the performer, the instructor, and you’ve had experience in all these roles and been successful at quite a few of them. So, what do you see yourself as primarily and what would you like to accomplish with Salsa, say, in the next five years or so?

I would like to continue working on all areas (teaching, performing, social dancing, etc.) because to be a complete dancer you have to grow on all levels. In terms of what I would like to accomplish, I think I would like to share my art with people in a more subtle way. I would like to expand my dancing horizons a bit more, try perhaps Swing, Tango, maybe some Hip Hop, so that I can get new ideas about movement. I find that when I just think about Salsa, I get stuck in a certain way of thinking about movement, and when I look at different art forms, I see the range of freedom that I would have to play with movement. So that’s one thing that I would definitely like to explore.

I would like to be able at some point to start a company: not too near into the future but not too far into the future either. I found that I’ve been really fortunate to be part of one of the most amazing dance companies in the world: Los Rumberos. I had the pleasure to work with Francisco Vazquez, who was one of my biggest inspirations in my dancing career so far, and he will always be one of my inspirations - an amazing person to work with. I was quite fortunate to be a part of Los Rumberos, and when I got to run the company when he wasn’t around, it was amazing because I would have the chance to work with quite a few people at the same time, and it’s something that a lot of people when they start they don’t have that chance.

So, I’ve learned enormously from that experience, and I’m going to use that knowledge to be able to put it back into my dancing and into my company when it starts. One thing that I’ve learned from that company is that in the beginning is it’s a good idea to have a small company. When I do stuff with my company, I want people to be part of it for two reasons: not just for dancing, I want them to be there for dancing as well as creating a dance form together. The personalities have to match, and they have to appreciate who I am as a person, not just as a dancer, because I think it plays a big role in what you end up creating as your final product. Sometimes, when a company is all about dancing, it becomes one-dimensional, and when you have a group of people that have the same goal, and you can feed off each other’s personalities, when you put something on stage, it becomes alive, it becomes something that’s more than dancing, and for me, that’s what I want to achieve.

What I appreciate about art, whether it’s singing, acting or dancing, what moves me is when I get totally sucked into that art form and I forget where I am. My goal is to be able to put something on stage that when the performance happens people will forget where they are. That would be my ultimate goal to achieve in the next five years, to get on stage and make people forget where they are.